In Defense of the Alden Indy: A Response to Rose Anvil
Over the several years I’ve been writing reviews and buying guides, I’ve received plenty of outreach (I love it, by the way, keep it coming!). However, over this weekend, I’ve received outreach like I never have before. Emails, comments, Instagram DMs. Coming in fast.
Why all the hubbub? Rose Anvil, a youtube channel famous for cutting boots and sneakers in half, posted their review of the Alden Indy, a pair I’ve reviewed several times on this site.
His review, titled “Why the Indiana Jones boot is stupidly overpriced” was, as you can guess by the title, very negative. The conclusion that Weston came to was quite different than my own, and people wanted to either get my thoughts, or to just tell me my review was wrong and to remove it.
I felt that, rather than answering each person individually, it may make sense to gather my personal thoughts here, and maybe provide some insight into those who are researching this boot.
The Problem with the Review
The hammer and screwdriver analogy is one that is quite famous. While there are countless variants, they all boil down to the same thing: evaluating a screwdriver based on how well it hammers in a nail doesn’t mean the screwdriver is bad at its job. Rather, it says you don’t understand how the tool is designed to work.
Watching this review of the Alden Indy, I couldn’t help but feeling that Rose Anvil was measuring how deep the Alden Indy Screwdriver could send a nail.
The variety of shoes is kind of amazing. For what is a fairly basic concept – keeping your feet dry – shoes have evolved into solving a variety of issues. They can help us run faster, they can protect us from dropped steel, and they can even make a short guy taller.
Perhaps more important for this piece though, they can be made to fight fires and fell trees, and they can be made to impress friends and clients in a business-like/urban environment. However, it’s extremely unlikely that they can do both. What makes a boot good at one, makes it almost inherently worse at another. In many ways it’s a zero-sum game.
In other words, saying that the Alden Indy is a less robust built boot than White’s or Nicks is pointless at best, and may ultimately harm a consumer looking for a boot that fits their lifestyle.
The Alden Indy is a Dress Boot
Despite its origins as a workman’s boot, Alden has not marketed or built the Indy for people doing hard labor for a long, long time. The Indy is a boot for business professionals to wear on casual Friday, or on the weekends. It’s far more at home on the 13th floor of an office building than on a trail.
This means that Alden doesn’t want to compete with the likes of White’s, Nicks, JK Boots, or Wesco. No, their attention is making sure they compare favorably with boots like the Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill, the Carmina Soller, or the Crockett and Jones Galway. In other words, it’s better to think of an Indy as a dress shoe with a bit of leather at the top so it works in a more casual space.
What is important for a boot in this category is entirely different than a boot in the “workboot” range. It also means that the corners which are cut – and unless your boot is more than $2,000 you ARE cutting corners somewhere – are going to be different in order to meet the wants of your consumer.
However, before we get into what the Alden Indys do better, let’s touch on some points of the Rose Anvil Review.
Rose Anvil’s Concern with the Alden Indy
The Leather
Review Timestamp: 4:17
In this section of the review, Weston’s big gripe is that the leather has a heavy pigment coat. More specifically, he notes that the leather won’t develop “highlights, contrast, and depth of color.” Weston says this as if nobody would possibly disagree that is the goal of any boot. The problem is that, for a lot of people, having a heavy patina on boots is exactly what they are trying to avoid.
To put it another way, we’re all familiar with Andrew Chen’s famous Vibergs. They are a visual dream for kicking around a campsite with your friends. However, if you’re grabbing drinks with a potential client to try and sell them on a large deal, that isn’t a great look.
That heavy pigmentation means that, even years down the line, the Indy can look presentable and take a shine. It’s designed to prevent high contrast. It offers something between the formality of a proper dress shoe and a beat-up pair of work boots.
To be fair, if you take a knife to it and cut through, you’ll see natural leather tones. Nothing about what Rose Anvil did was staged, but that’s true of any form of smooth leather. A hand-made shoe from a Saville Row-based maker will do the same.
All that aside, the Alden Indy comes in a variety of leather options. Rose Anvil chose the one specifically designed to not develop a patina. If you want something that does, the world is your oyster: Chromexcel? Arabica Lux? Suede? Shell? All of these are available on the Indy if you want a more worn-in look.
The Leatherboard
Review Timestamp: 7:39
At this chapter of the review, Rose Anvil points out that the midsole (and later the heel cap and heel lifts) is made of what is known as leatherboard. To give him credit, unlike others who refer to this as paper, Weston does describe it as what it is.
To be clear, a true leather midsole is superior in every way to leatherboard other than cost. In a perfect world, the Indy would have it. In the world of workwear, where your boots might see fires, flooding, and more, the leather will be noticeably longer in life.
It’s important to remember, though, that the Indy isn’t a firefighting boot. If leatherboard is something that isn’t acceptable to you, here is a partial list of brands you need to cross off your list: Carmina, Crockett & Jones, Cobbler Union, R.M. Williams, Vass, and more. White’s uses it on some of their boots. Hell, even Edward Green and John Lobb use it! In the world of dress-focused footwear, leatherboard is the rule, not the exception.
The reality is that, for the average person, leatherboard will do a perfectly fine job. Further, because it can be molded into a variety of shapes, leatherboard heel counters do a better job with shapely lasts.
The Outsole
Timestamp: 8:58
When it comes to the outsole, this is an area where opinion is being presented as fact.
First, as someone who has worn through the outsole of an Indy, I’ve never slipped in one. From 2′ snow storms, to hurricanes, and everything in between, these soles have done as well as anything without a lug. I’m not sure where he gets “hydroplaning out of control.” This is just outright wrong. Though, it looks like the pair he has were only worn a day or two, so it’s likely this was just a misunderstanding.
More importantly, as he mentions himself, the sole offers the visual thickness of a leather sole, with slightly more grip. Claiming that it doesn’t have the same grip of something like a Vibram 100 is missing the point entirely. There is a reason why leather soles are still the norm on most dress-focused shoes. Some people just want a slimmer profile. The cork nitrile offers a thinner look, without the drawbacks of leather.
Further, like the above, if cork nitrile isn’t for you, the Indy comes in a lugged form, a crepe form, or even leather if that’s your preference.
What Rose Anvil Missed
OK, so far it seems like I’ve been making excuses for a lot of these. Sure, you can justify using the cheaper materials, but why does Alden still charge $600 for these boots? Shouldn’t these cheaper materials mean they should be cheaper than the brands he mentions?
For the purpose of this section, I’m going to be comparing the Alden to a few of my Pacific North West Boots. The Alden’s and my White’s 350 Cruisers are two of my most worn boots in my collection. I adore them both, so don’t take this as me attacking White’s. Rather, showing that both brands needed to cut corners, even at this price point.
Stitches per Inch
Stitches per inch, often referred to as SPI, is exactly what it sounds like: how many stitches are there over an inch. When building a boot, a higher stitch density takes additional time, and additional training. Most people see it as a sign of finer craftsmanship, even if it doesn’t have a major impact on durability.
Speaking only on the upper – we’ll get to the construction later – the White’s and the Alden’s are simply in different leagues. Where the White’s has a SPI of around 7, the Alden’s is much tighter at around 12. The Alden’s are also much more consistent, with even SPI throughout the boot.
This takes time, effort, and leads to more wasted pairs that end up trashed or sold as seconds. In other words, it increases the price.
Construction Stitching
If the stitching on the upper is different, the stitching holding the outsole onto the boot is an ocean apart. The stitching that holds the Alden’s welt to the outsole is almost eerily even. Other than a few smaller stitches at the very ends of the welt, all the stitches are within 1.5 mm of one another across both boots. If I didn’t know for a fact these were Goodyear Welted, I could be convinced the welt was fake.
The White’s are… not. The stitching on the White’s welt ranges from around 4.1 mm all the way to 1.2 cm in length, and you can find everything in between. The stitches get larger and smaller as they go, and each stitch line stops at a different point.
While none of these will impact the longevity of the boot, getting the stitching that even again takes time, training, and adds to the cost.
Leather Cuts
On the Alden Indy, the cuts on all the leather are basically perfect. To clarify, when I mean cuts, I don’t mean clicking, but the actual shape of the leather – how far the end of the quarter is to the welt, how far it is from the center of the back of the boot to the first eyelet, etc.
In other words, on the Indys, the boots are essentially symmetrical.
The White’s? Well… they are not. Panels are slightly mis-aligned, the pull loops are slightly different sized, etc. Nothing like my first pair of Truman, but noticeable enough that it makes them less appropriate in a business setting.
Much like the others, these slight mis-alignments do nothing to impact the wearability of the boots. These are not lasted at an angle or anything like that. At the same time, slowing down and making sure everything is lined up (plus tossing out the slight misalignments), again, takes time, training, and cost.
Construction
Without going into the debate about which is better, stitchdown or Goodyear welt, there is no debate that Goodyear welting a shoe is more expensive to make. Moving away from White’s for a bit, which has an even more labor-intensive construction method but a higher price than the Indys, the other boots Rose Anvil compared them to were traditional stitchdown.
Sitchdown definitely has tough look to it, and I own plenty of stitchdown boots, but at it’s core it is a fairly simple method of construction. A Goodyear welt takes more material and more time to do. Again, more cost to make the boot that isn’t accounted for in the brands he compares them with.
Should You Write Off the Alden Indy?
Look, I won’t fault you for saying you don’t care about SPI or panel alignment. Saying that they don’t impact the use of the boot is 100% accurate. Further, other than the thing about cork soles hydroplaning out of control, nothing Rose Anvil said is inaccurate. The leather won’t patina, the leatherboard will crack if exposed to elements for an extended period, and the cork nitrile outsole won’t grip the way a lugged Vibram will. If you want a boot to go hiking, put out fires, etc. (or a boot that looks like you want to do that), the Alden Indy isn’t the right one for you.
I personally own White’s, Nicks, and more specifically because I do want something to wear during those times.
However, I would never wear my White’s or Nicks to the office. They just were not built for that. To judge them for their ability to work with pressed chinos or a sport coat is as pointless as it is unfair to the brands.
When building the Indy, Alden decided to redirect funds that would be spent on making the Indy a better outdoorsy boot, and making it a better dress boot. Save $15 on an insole, and spend it on cleaning stitching, that kind of stuff. For many people, that is a trade off that is entirely worth making.
Ultimately, if you wanted the Alden Indy to be a workboot or hiking boot, Rose Anvil’s video may help point you in another direction. However, if you wanted an Alden Indy to do what an Alden Indy was made to do, nothing in that video should change your mind.
Did you really compare the SPI of a machine stitched GYW with a hand stitched stitchdown construction? Of course the SPI and consistency is going to be higher on the machine stitch. Horrible comparison
Scott –
I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying. The hand welting on Whites is done connecting the welt to the upper, not the welt to the mid and outsole. The welt is then folded over and sewn on with a rapid stitch. None of the hand stitching is visible on a completed boot.
The exposed stitches, which I mentioned and I used a picture of, are done with a rapid stitch using a machine in a very similar way to a Goodyear welt.
The argument he made was based on the materials and construction. He had more issues with the boot being 6 to 7 hundred and using material that Thursdays use ate 199. By the measures in your article. Thursdays are a just as good a boot with the same corners cut. For 1/3 the price. Or for less than the Alden you can get a grant stone Ottawa boot with better construction and nearly half the price. Rose anvil is right. Completely overpriced. Not say it isn’t a good boot. But for what you getting for the money. Overpriced.
I don’t mean to knock Thursday here – they aim to be a $200 boot – but if materials are all that you care about, they don’t align with the Indys. First, Thursday gets their leather from Lefarc, where the leather is around $5-6 dollars a foot (source: https://lefarcshop.com/collections/chrome-tanned). As I mentioned elsewhere, Alden uses Horween leather, which is around $15 a foot – some of the most expensive bovine leather available and more than the Seidel leathers that Rose Anvil claims to be the best. These prices are retail, not wholesale, but the price difference is the same. Thursday also uses foam instead of leather for the midsole (Rose Anvil’s biggest complaint), and all-rubber outsoles. Further, they are made-in-Mexico. This may or may not matter to you, but it definitely impacts the price it costs to make them. Thursday’s QC has a bit of a reputation – I think it’s fine for the price, but it certainly isn’t the same as an Indy. If you find that Thursday fits what you need as well as Alden, then that’s great! You just saved $400. However, to say they are just as good is hard to back up.
Grant Stone makes a great pair of boots, using leather from well known tanneries. Again, I recommend them here – in fact, I specifically suggest the Ottawa in my review of the Alden Indy as the only other boot one should compare the Indys to (https://100wears.com/stitched-footwear/alden/alden-indy/#pav). Unlike the Nicks and Whites that Rose Anvil uses in his comparison, the Ottawa is designed to do the same thing as the Indy. Interestingly, the Ottawa is available in almost the exact same leathers as the Indy, so, while I wouldn’t agree, if you’re going by Rose Anvil’s take Grant Stone would also be using poor quality pigmented leather on several of their make-ups. However, much like the Thursdays, Grant Stone does not make their product in the United States. This will matter to some, not to others, but it is again going to impact the overall price.
I genuinely am not trying to be snarky here…but I’d imagine the person running this blog would be familiar with Thursday’s incredibly popular made in USA line. They use the exact same Horween leather that you claim lends to the increased cost of the Indy…for less than half the price. Literally every single thing in the Thursday boot is made in the US down to the poron they use AFAIK. I would be shocked if the same was true about the Indy.
I’m glad that person brought up Thursday in particular, because the USA line seems to match or surpass the quality of the Indys, and they’re both trying to do the same thing. IMO the Thursday boots look even dressier, and are more durable as well, so there’s really nothing justifying the price of the Indy other than the label.
If you like the look and don’t want another boot – cool. You do you, spend your money how you want to look the way you desire. Own it for what it is…don’t make excuses for the clearly inferior quality as it makes you seem less credible.
Thanks for reading the article, but if that was the take away I may not have explained myself correctly. Indeed, one of my major points was that the cost of a boot has to do with a lot more than just material. Construction, QC (what defects you accept on firsts), etc. make up as much (or more) of costs when building a boot. The reference to Horween vs. Seidel wasn’t to say that Horween is better or worse, but rather to provide a counterpoint to saying that the Indy leather was a cheap, poor quality leather. If Alden only cared about maximizing profits, they could have used the exact lather Rose Anvil selected as the “best” and pocketed the difference. Different leather has different properties, and in this case Alden actually paid more to get the specific properties they wanted.
Thursday’s Vanguard line offers a great value, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that (again, I’ve recommended them here on this site before for those who have a budget of under $300). However, they don’t compare to the Indy in construction – nor should they, as they cost half as much. The clicking on their leather wouldn’t be acceptable as seconds on an Alden, and there are regular reports of poor stitch quality. To sell a boot at $265, these sort of things are completely fine – you can’t throw out half a hide due to loose grain or have multiple full time staff checking every stitch of every boot. At $600, you can do these things (and Alden does… most of the time).
These extra steps may not be worth it to you, but they are for a lot of people. This is true in the same way that having leather that patinas quickly or a Vibram 100 outsole may matter to some people, but not to the guy who buys an Indy.
This is also a bad argument, Thursday has a whole line of boots made in the US from Horween Chromexcel leather, at under 300 (Vanguard). I own a pair of Vanguard and a nice pair of black Alden indies (401?) The way Alden cut corners with the materials is ridiculous, I like the Indys and wear them often they just feel good, and I love the soles, but your rebuttal is ludicrous.
Wow facts……..I have been a Alden fanboy for years! When I bought my first pair suede long wings I was so happy paying over 600 for shoes. Now I feel hornswoggled and now i honestly feel like aldens reputation has been severely impacted………it really sucks but it feels so true.
The 405 used to be under 200$. They were 185.99 when I bought my pair 18 years ago.
Rose anvil rated the Grant Stone Diesels higher than Indys. That should tell you something about how good his reviews are.
I do appreciate your perspective. I have owned the Indy and the whites semi dress. The whites semi dress in my opinion is a superior boot to the Indy for maybe 20 bucks more? It breaks my heart to say this because I am from MA, but I think Wes’s point is spot on: Alden Indy’s are overpriced. With that said, they have a tremendous history and people love them which makes me glad. The semi dress can be worn in the same situations as an Indy, but hey, style is subjective.
Paul –
Style is absolutely subjective! Even just within the United States it’s always amazing to see what people wear to the same job in different cities – quite the range.
I’m sorry. Weston is absolutely correct. He also compared them to Thursday Captains, which are nice quality, more leather, and just as at home on casual Friday. Nick’s are loaded with real leather (pounds of it) and cost the same. Just use better materials or charge like the Thursday boots.
Rob –
First, I appreciate you taking a look at this post and thanks for responding.
On your note, I have to say that comparing the Thursdays and the Aldens doesn’t seem like a fair comparison. Simply having more leather doesn’t in-and-of-itself make something better or worse, but if that is something that matters to you, the Thursdays have a lot less of it. Thursdays use a foam/fiberboard insole, compared to the Alden’s leather, plastic for their heel and toe counter, compared to Alden’s leatherboard, and rubber heel stacks, again compared to the Alden’s leatherboard. They also use a thinner leather for the upper, and a much thinner leather for the lining, both from a much more affordable tannery. You don’t need to take my word for it, as you pointed out, Rose Anvil has cut several of them in half. Styling is subjective, so I can’t say one way is right or wrong, but the build quality on Thursdays is no where near Alden. That isn’t to say that Thursdays are a bad boot for $200 – that is an amazingly affordable price point and I recommended them for someone with that budget here on this site – but there are literally zero places where the made-in-Mexico Thursdays are close as far as materials or build quality goes when compared to the Aldens.
As for the Nicks, while they are certainly a boot that does what they aim to do very well, they don’t compete with the Aldens anywhere but internet forums. They are different tools for different jobs. To dive in a bit more, as I said above, having “more leather” doesn’t make a product inherently better. Nor does it mean outright that a boot costs more to make. Not all leather is created or priced equally. Just to give an example, the Seidel leather that Weston used on the boots he designed is actually significantly cheaper (by about ~33%) than the Horween leather that Alden uses on the various Indys (feel free to check prices here: https://www.oaleathersupply.com/). Again, this doesn’t mean that the Seidel leather is worse for what Nicks wants to do, but if material cost was the only thing that mattered in a boot, it would be the Nicks that “cheaped out” on leather. However, for the sake of argument, let’s just say that all leather was priced exactly the same, in most of Nicks’ models they do have more of it. That doesn’t mean that they not sit atop the hierarchy of footwear as the undisputed answer to each situation. To take the argument to an extreme: I have a pair of Edward Green Inverness (review coming eventually) that I pull out for important meetings. Would a pair of White’s Smoke Jumpers in Natty Roughout with a Vibram 100 Red X be a better piece of footwear for that environment simply because there is more leather? (The Edward Greens even have leatherboard counters!) Of course not. The Edward Greens and the White’s are built in completely different ways to do completely different things. The same is true with the Alden Indys and the Nicks – they use different materials with different construction to accomplish different tasks for the owner.
I’d be inclined to disagree to a point. I think the whites semi-dress is a slick boot to be sure and I actually very much want one, but I don’t think it’s one I could wear in the office, it’s still a touch too rugged. I can wear a pair of well taken care of Indys to the office. The Indy lets me have it both ways.
I think my problem with Weston’s video, aside from the obvious clickbaitishness of it, is that to me, he’s comparing apples and oranges. Yeah the boots he’s comparing to the Indy are boots, but they really aren’t boots designed to do the same thing. It’s like comparing a steel toe boot for working in a dirty factory to a hiking boot. They’re different tools. There’s a reason I own Indy boots, but also a whole host of other boots. Right boot for the job/time/place.
I think the point Rose Anvil was trying to make was that there wasn’t $600 dollars in value in the boot, unless you value the “Indy boot” name and willing to spend maybe $250 or $300 dollars more for that privilege for basically a $300 or maybe $350 dollar boot. That is the crux of his argument.
Patrick –
Thanks for the comment. There is no doubt that the Alden name carries a price with it, but I would ask – where are you getting a made-in-America, Goodyear welted boot with better (or similar) materials, and similar quality for $300, or even $350?
Oak Street Bootmakers and Truman are really the only entirely made-in-America Goodyear welted brands left outside Alden and the OSB Lakeshore is $530, and Truman is $480 (and their QC at that price is… questionable).
If the argument is that Alden is charging $50 for their name over the Oak Street Bootmakers, I can get behind that argument.
I think that Allen Edmunds Higgins mill and Parkhurst Niagara would be more comparable boots to the Alden boot. Both of them source their labor here in the states. And all three including Alden buy their materials here as well as tanneries abroad. Both Parkhurst and Allen Edmunds use better leathers and materials for less money and are comparable in quality but charge significantly less for their boots. If you want a better leather like chromexcel, Alden will charge you more on top of their original Indy boot price. They certainly appear to be charging much more for their brand name and delivering a shoe with inferior materials than their cheaper competitors. As for their quality, although this is anecdotal, I am getting conflicting reports from cobblers and customers in that Alden quality does slip from time to time, from missing gussets, oil stains on the stitching, etc. Alden does make fine boots but it doesn’t make perfect boots, certainly not at the level they charge.
Patrick –
Unfortunately, both Allen Edmonds (Dominican Republic) and Parkhurst (Spain) are no longer made in the US. Allen Edmonds “finishes” their boots in the U.S., which means the uppers are made abroad but they are bottomed in Port Washington, but it’s low enough that Allen Edmonds can’t legally use the term “Made in America” per US trade regulations.
As for Alden charging more based on leather, I’m not sure where you found that, but Alden has a standard price for all leathers other than Shell. Chromexcel, Calf, Kudu, and Cow are all the same set price.
The boot that really embarrasses the Alden isn’t Grant Stone (China and too low heel height) or Whites(sloppy), or Thursday(awful last), it’s Allen Edmonds.
The Higgins Mill is available in the same or better leathers more outsole options and much better construction. No leatherboard. AE uses leather midsole and heel counter, tight consistent stitching, 360deg GYW. It’s made in USA. It’s a better boot than the Indy and it looks just as good or better at the office. If you wait for a sale you can get the Higgins Mill for half the price of the Indy (Indy never goes on sale).
Mark –
Thanks for the comment, but I think someone may have given you incorrect information.
Allen Edmonds are not made in the USA. They have now shifted the the vast majority of their upper production (including the Higgins Mill) overseas, instead they are now only bottomed in the U.S., which isn’t enough labor or value to qualify for the regulated term “Made in America” (which requires at least 55% of the value of the product to come from the United States). AE also uses Celastic in their construction for counters (source, a second source). Allen Edmonds doesn’t use a traditional midsole, instead using cork or poron depending on if it’s the “weatherproof” model or not. You can see an Allen Edmonds boot deconstructed in this Treton & Heath video.
I got the Higgins Mill weatherproof boot and it was junk: bulbous, lightweight, spongy with badly loose grained CXL. True it was only $320 on sale but my $399 Indy factory seconds are ten times better.
Thank you Mark! I too think Thursday has an awful last! And I got my Alden Indy 405 today and I definitely did not pay full price!
I think the title of the Rose Anvil was a little over the top. I do agree that they are overpriced to some degree, so for me I wouldn’t pay full retail for them. I have to say my Indies could be the most comfortable boots I own which is worth mentioning. You made many good points in response to the video and you obviously have done your homework. I do expect high quality materials for a high priced boot so I would agree Indies price point doesn’t quite match the materials used, but then again, they are so comfortable and well designed that you could argue they are worth what they charge. I bought mine at a considerable discount so will invest in upgraded components when I get them resoled. I think it’s a shame that most people will never get to experience a pair of Indies because of their price tag. Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave –
Thanks for sharing! Sales always throw a wrench into any comparison.
Not all Thursdays are made in Mexico and many of the boots use Horween. For instance, Thursday Vanguard is made in the USA and 4 out of 6 of the Vanguard leather colors is Horween.
Details about the Vanguard Indigo $265:
Exclusive Indigo Horween® Chromexcel Leather
Leather Traceable to a Single Herd of Cattle from White Oak Pastures
Goodyear Welt Construction for Longevity
Poron® Antimicrobial Shock Absorbing Insole
Cork-Bed Midsoles that Form to Your Feet
Durable Studded Rubber Outsoles
Handcrafted in the USA
Rob –
Thursday does make a small number in New York, but that is the perfect example of a boot where materials are not everything. Ignoring for a moment that the Vanguard still has no real midsole, thinner lining leather, etc., the line has QC you would expect from a $250 dollar boot, not a $600 boot. That could be less selectively clicked leather, stitching issues, heels wearing out in 2 weeks of wear, etc.
To be clear, it isn’t fair to ask that a pair of $265 boots compete fairly with a pair of $600 boots. For $265, the Vanguard line offers good value. However, at the same time, there really is no comparison when it comes to build quality – as you can guess, the $600 boot is built significantly better than the $265 boot.
This review is literally what a friend of mine sounded like trying to defend his purchase of a literal plastic wallet from Louis Vuitton. It’s a combination of ignorance and misunderstanding of what actual quality is.
Blue chrome core leather that hasn’t been finished all the way through is super cheap. If a uniform finish is the goal, there are perfect hides with no scratches, bites, insect marks, or stretches available from the US and Europe. Alden doesn’t use that because it’s expensive and cuts into profits.
As for SPI, just from a casual glance. There is absolutely NO WAY that welt is 12 SPI. Saying Alden is 12 SPI is a straight up lie pulled from someone’s arse. There isn’t even a machine that can properly stitch at 12 SPI. Bespoke shoemakers painstakingly hand stitch welts to achieve 12 SPI, because such an operation is ridiculously delicate. We’re talking 3 stitches per 1/4″. Such a welt has almost invisible stitches.
Construction stitching as pictured is on par with Allen Edmonds and even Thursday boots. I’ve yet seen any boot company from any country try to sell jagged stitching on uppers as acceptable. There’s nothing special here.
Leather cuts. The uppers look perfect because they’ve been finished to the hills to look that way. I’ve already went over this above. Supposedly it’s Horween Austin line of leathers. This is not an expensive leather at about $1 per square foot. You need 4 square foot for boots. That’s literally less than $7 of leather for the outers. Real luxury yeah?
GYW does not cost more that Stitchdown to make. The machines are so prevalent that GYW today is probably cheaper to make. It is a similar situation to white sugar costing less than brown sugar despite all the extra steps needed to bleach and refine molasses out of brown sugar. Alden has been around for a long time, so whatever capital expenditures the GYW machines had were long paid off.
Look I get that people love and relate to brand marketing. Same way people staunchly defend Tesla and Apple, but the reality is the Indy Boot is literally the equivalent of a Chinese mall boot, but made in America on a nice looking last. Alden literally rolls in profit every time someone buys one of these. If you’re OK with overspending to give money to a muti-million dollar US company who couldn’t care less about you then go ahead. Remember companies are not your friends. Support passionate local makers instead.
Tommy –
I love the long comment. My original post started off as something similar over on Reddit!
As far as being ignorant, I don’t claim to be better than any other enthusiast, but I either currently owned or have owned footwear from pretty much every brand mentioned in these comments, in Rose Anvil’s video, and more. I have no need to justify my purchase of Aldens over Whites, Nicks, Viberg, etc. – I’ve bought and worn through them all! I’ve seen how they develop, and catalog that on this website to help others do the same comparisons.
On the leather (combining the two sections here), if you have a place to get Austin for less than a dollar a square foot, please share it. Austin typically runs about $12/sq.ft. USD for us small-time people. Cheap Chinese “Genuine Leather” costs around 5 per square foot shipped. Now, that’s retail and Alden gets theirs wholesale, but the same is true of Nicks, White’s and others. In any case, it’s fair to say that it’s a small percentage of the price of any boot. Even at $12/sq.ft. that is only around 60-80 in leather costs per boot. Of course, this is true of all leathers, which is exactly what I was intending to highlight above. Materials are only a small percentage of the costs no matter the brand, and the price between Austin or the heavily waxed leathers that Weston prefers (be it Chromexcel at $15/sqft or Seidel’s offer at $10/sqft) is inconsequential in the overall cost of the boot. If the only thing that matters is the cost of the outer leather than everyone would be wearing John Doe Shoe’s sharkskin boots with JR soles which only cost $235.
On SPI, as I mentioned in the post, the 12 SPI was on the upper stitching. The welt is much wider – around 5 SPI – but the difference is the consistency. Where other brands will change the SPI by a factor of 2 or 3 across the stitch, the Aldens are even. This slows down the process, leads to more seconds that are sold for lower prices, and increases labor costs.
On Goodyear welt vs. Stitchdown, while I wouldn’t be quite so quick to brush off the capex cost of these machines as they often break and need quite a bit of work to maintain, the rapid stitch machine used on goodywear welts are essentially identical to stitchdown ones, so the cost of the machinery would be negligible between the two. What Goodyear welting does have are several extra steps compared to pure stitchdown (not White’s version, which is more labor intensive and is reflected in their higher price). Adding the gemming and attaching the welt are extra steps that a stitchdown boot doesn’t have, and rapid stitching the upper/welt to the outsole costs the same. Sure, it’s a small amount, but the price difference between a veg tan insole and the split leather that Alden uses is around $5, so if that is a big deal than an extra 20-30 minutes of labor is a big deal.
On supporting local, for a huge portion of the country (somewhere around 1/4 of Americans including the cities of DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City, and Boston), Alden is going to be the most local piece of footwear they can buy short of spending 2 or 3 thousand dollars for a local cobbler to hand-make them a pair of boots. If you’re in a financial position to afford to have your local cobbler hand-make you boots that’s great, and I’m sure they are amazing boots, but if your whole argument is that people should maximize value that is a bit hard to justify. Personally, I don’t really care if a company “rolls in profit” when I buy a product or if the owner needs to wash dishes at night to keep the lights on. Payless lost money on every pair they sold, but I wouldn’t have recommended their shoes to anyone. If a company can make money and pay their staff while also providing me a good that I want and see as a fair value, sounds like everybody won.
On Chinese made, sure – if you mean some great brands like Grant Stone or Flame Panda. They are pretty good company to be in!
I have a pair of Alden CXL Indy boots. I have had them for six years. I love them. The neo-cork outsole is awesome and works well in rainy Seattle.
Just looking at the materials and cost of Alden Indy’s doesn’t factor in how truly amazing they feel on your feet. They really do feel special, the weight balance, the support, and you can feel the craftsmanship. I recently got Grant Stone’s Brass Boot’s and those feel no where near as comfortable, or feel as well crafted, not to say that are bad in any way. The Indy’s are expensive, but your foot will truly know the difference in quality between those any Grant Stone’s in particular. My flat wide feet love the Indy’s.
RA guy is an idiot with a band saw he doesn’t know anything about shoes anyone can cut one in half and try show what is inside. He absolutely just made this shit video to get views and profit off of trashing a great American brand. The materials alden use are more than adequate. I would guess 99% of the people complaining about the materials don’t own alden or would ever own alden. They should all go by some nicks and be happy since a boot is a boot and more leather gooder.
Edward Green doesnt use leather board counter. Real leather it is.
Hey Dhadha –
I had a Picadilly come through around 2 years ago, I never ended up writing a review as I received the wrong size so I couldn’t talk about comfort, fit, etc., but both the heel and toe were clearly leatherboard. Though, if that’s changed, I would be happy to update.
Do you have information on what they are using now that you could send along?
Thank you for bringing balance to the Alden Indy discussion. Having read your other Indy essays, I have a fit question. The Trubalance last means, as I understand it, that a wide forefoot is paired with a narrower heel. But some Indy owners claim that to be fit properly, BOTH front and back must be sized. I can’t confirm this. And if true, I imagine it’d happen only in stores. But it seems far too complicated for footwear that isn’t custom made for the individual. Can you enlighten?
Richard –
Those saying that your ball and heel have different measurements are correct, though it’s no more true for the Trubalance than it is for any other last.
Almost every last used today is known as a “combination” last, where the width for the ball and the heel are different. Some brands show this (for example, if you buy a size 12 D Indy, the inside will actually say “12 B/D” – or the heel is 2 widths less than the ball of the boot), where other brands just use the larger width (for example, Oak Street Bootmaker’s Trench Boot features the same ball to heel difference as the Trubalance, but are just listed as a single size). This isn’t a hard science (some makers will change it a single width, some a half width, etc.), but I wouldn’t let the fact that the Indy is a combination last scare you – it’s just a somewhat exaugurated combination last compared to most.
While getting a measurement for all parts of your feet would be great, as you point out, it isn’t practical. Thankfully, you can infer a lot of it based on what you’ve already tried just like any other pair of shoes. For example, a lot of people have access to Allen Edmonds (either ones they own or through a store). While there is no hard and fast rule, in general most AE lasts will be a bit wider in the heel and a lot more narrow in the ball compared to the Trubalance.
Another option is to buy from a store with a generous return policy. For example, both Nordstrom and J. Crew carry Trubalance-lasted boots and have free in-store returns. It’ll be difficult to find non-D-width boots from these stores, but can give you a good idea.
Recently got into boots so like a lot of boot enthusiasts, I started with several pairs of Thursday Boots. Terrific boots for the $$ btw. Then I started down the rabbit hole and bought multiple Grant Stones, Allen Edmonds, Beckett Simonons, and Aldens (including but not limited to Indys). I haven’t bought Nicks or White’s because I’m a physician in an urban environment. I want boots that work well in the winter but still look appropriate (and cool) in the office and at the bar. Of all the boots I’ve bought so far, my Indys (401, 403C, Alden x Brogue Arai) are by far and away my favorite boots because they are supremely comfortable and surprisingly versatile. They look as good with t-shirt and jeans as they do with an Italian sport coat. The Arais (Color 8 cordovan shell) even work well with a suit!
Many of the arguments I see above remind me of those that criticize Porsche because a Corvette does the same thing for a lot less money. In the world of luxury goods, where a stainless steel Patek Nautilus fetches over $100k, value takes on a whole different dimension. I would argue that the Alden Indys are as iconic as a Porsche 911, Rolex Daytona, or Gucci Horsebit Loafer ($920!) and as such are fairly priced.
I’ve liked his videos for a while – it is interesting to see the comments and the cut throughs. In the end it is a nice gimmick and you do need to apply a limit of common sense to what he says.
Some of the responses here though from his fanboyz seem a little fanatical. It’s as if he and some of the fans would not be happy unless were all dressed head to foot in 3mm of super thick leather. Like some sort of leather meat dress.
Amongst others I have the RM Williams (like butter), Iron Rangers (pig to break in), the RW Mocs (heavy on the knees) and as of last week a pair of Alden 405’s in the Calf. All done on his site. Side note – anyone complaining about the price needs to come to the UK – 725 Quid I paid from the one UK shop that stocks them.
His year worth of Alden sneering has been interesting to watch – from mocking to ripping apart to general admission they were the best on test of his mega review. I hate them, they are built like cack, but they are the best shoes of this bunch.
So, the boot? I love it. Comfortable from the off, no major breaking in needed and look amazing.
Am I worried about the materials based on his videos? Not all all. As far as I am concerned there is an evolution to the materials here that all make sense. Alden is not scrimping for the sake of it – go get some 300 dollar boots for intelligent corner cutting. There is a reason for every piece of material – from comfort to break in to ease of repair. Including “leatherboard”.
In the end this is a great boot that will last me a lifetime. Are they over priced? Like any luxury item, of course they are. That is fine for me and I have no need to turn myself into a leather zealot to appreciate their material choices.
There is only one set of boots that look like the 405’s and work like the 405s. The 405s. Don’t want that? Fill your proverbial boots and get something else.
They wont be 405s. Which might be fine for you.
Funny how people get bent out of shape about price and what a boot is or should be worth. If you like the styling of the Indy, the patina it builds, the brand behind it and you can afford it, get it. Who gives a shit if Thursday or who ever makes a good boot for $200. Is it the Indy boot? No.
As someone who’s had over a dozen Alden’s, many of them Indy’s, over the last decade, I’ll weigh in on the controversy. First, It’s been disappointing seeing Alden’s prices go up so dramatically over the last 5 years. I remember not to long ago when you could pick one up new for $500 and now they are basically $700. Add in sales tax in many places and you’re looking at almost $800, which is what shell cordovan Alden’s went for.
Bottom line: The Indy, love it as I do, is not and shouldn’t be a $700 boot.
Also, it’s NOT a dress boot! And that’s another weird thing about the Indy: What is it?
People are like “Well it’s not supposed to be a work boot, it’s a dress boot,” but it’s NOT a dress boot and the Indiana Jones heritage directly implies that it’s supposed to be built so that it can at least take some kind of beating and still look nice enough for dress casual. The Indy, lies in a murky area between a Red Wing Iron Ranger an a Crockett & Jones Coniston — an actual dress boot.
1) I think that the Indy boot should be made a little more “robustly” to handle some “Indiana Jones behavior” without being totally overbuilt like a standard PNW boot (I’ve had many). It’s not a dress boot and shouldn’t be built or priced like one.
2) The price point should come down to around $550. If I wanted to buy one now I would never pay full price.
That’s my take.
I absolutely agree with you, as someone who has owned over a dozen Aldens, half of those Indy boots. The Indy is NOT a dress boot and it should be made to more robust standards to earn its name. The Indy should be made as a dress casual boot that can handle some moderate “Indy” like conditions on occasion, in other words, just like Dr. Jones would wear them. Some time in the field and then clean them up to go lecture at the university. No one is saying or believes that an Indy has to be as overbuilt like a White’s, but certainly, as RA showed in his Indy shell cordovan review, it should not be falling apart after 6 months of moderate wear. And, yes, an Indy should not be $700 now. Price it at $550, take out the leatherboard, give it a better quality veg tan welt, and it’s a different story…